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"Bad economics"

  • May. 5th, 2005 at 1:17 PM
down, 2009-06-28a
Dave Winer, talking about ads in RSS feeds, writes a great line:

"Basically it's bad economics to spoil a good thing for a couple of incremental bucks today, for zero total bucks later."

Bingo.

I just wrote to him:

"This is one of the best things I've heard you say.

It's also a classic example of what's wrong with American business. Because most managers/marketers/what-have-you simply don't get this. All they see are the incremental bucks."


This all calls to mind (and I directly quoted to him) my post quoting Penn Gillette, and how Penn would make studio heads more concerned about money, not less.

Or, as [info]akirlu once said of me, "You think too much like an entrepreneur to actually be one."

UPDATE: Dave has been kind enough to link to this post. Thank you, Dave. To those reading me for the first time, welcome. I've enabled comments from non-members of LiveJournal, if you want to pitch in. At the risk of being repetitive, I also really do suggest you read my earlier post on Penn Gillette's comments as well, as it expands these ideas some.

Comments

[info]darkmane wrote:
May. 5th, 2005 08:59 pm (UTC)
In the first paragraph:
The feeds themselves are ads for the stories they link to, which are revenue-generators.


Now some points to think about:

1) He's saying the mainstream feeds are 100% ads already, yet there shouldn't be advertising. ???

2) By building up a stigmata around putting ads in RSS feeds, he's cutting of revenue streams for the smaller content creators who will probably not be approached by the larger advertiser. Especially as pod/vod-casting are driving up the costs of delivering content for various cutting edge providers.

3) With all the stories about Government/Corporate propoganda being packaged as "news", how's this for a concept, selling space in their print media, it gets picked up by the RSS feed, so they sell the click-thrus and get the advertising revenues from the banner ads. Not so Win-Win for me, more win-"Bend over and grab your ankles"

It sounds like a good way to keep broadcasting (In the broadest sense, not specifically using the public airwaves/cable connections) the only viable way to make a living in the content provider market and trying hard to make RSS a broadcast medium rather than a narrowcast medium.
[info]libertango wrote:
May. 6th, 2005 12:35 am (UTC)
Winer comments
1) I interpret this as meaning something along the lines of, given that an RSS feed is an advertisement anyway, piling on yet another advertisement on top of it is overkill. More than that, it's the kind of overkill that leads people to unsubscribe from feeds, which just diminishes the value of both the ads, and the feeds.

2)I wouldn't say Dave is building up a stigma regarding advertising. I'd say society is. And, as I've said before, advertising doesn't work.

I'm not sure I understand 3.
(Anonymous) wrote:
May. 6th, 2005 12:13 am (UTC)
As Usual, Lousy Winer Thinking
Well, if you agree with Dave's assumption that unless you do an RSS feed exactly as he would that you're doomed to failure, then it makes sense. But I already subscribe to a number of RSS feeds that have ads in them, and most are done in a non-obnxious way and I have no problem with it.

RSS ads will follow the same trajectory as web ads. Some companies will use annoying ads that detract from the experiencing of reading the feed and paying the price in fewer people reading them or developing methods to block them while smart companies/individuals go with low-tech unobtrusive ads that add yet another revenue stream.
[info]libertango wrote:
May. 6th, 2005 12:29 am (UTC)
Re: As Usual, Lousy Winer Thinking
"RSS ads will follow the same trajectory as web ads."

I agree with this statement 100% (in an "If this goes on..." way) though probably to a different conclusion than you seem to have.

That is, as I've said before, web ads have pretty much proven that "advertising" doesn't work any more.

So, yes... If ads embedded in RSS are allowed to continue, they'll become just as poor a value to the customer (meaning the advertiser, in this instance) as web ads are today. Great. Just what everyone needs.
[info]ged wrote:
May. 6th, 2005 01:14 am (UTC)
Re: As Usual, Whiny Anonymous Insults
Please put your name on it next time. That way your opponents can cop out with the same style of ad hominem attack.

You made a good point, but you made it a completely disrespectful way. Why?
(Anonymous) wrote:
May. 6th, 2005 09:02 am (UTC)
Good point
Dave makes a very good point about american businesses. They only care about making money, even if they're having negative impacts on society. They should stop that.
(Anonymous) wrote:
May. 8th, 2005 04:54 am (UTC)
Dave
I rember when Dave predicted RSS feeds would prevent unwanted ads from reaching users. We can now see that he was wrong about that like he was about everything else. His misunderstanding of things that were unquestionably going to happen to RSS proves he does not truly understand how users view the the technology that he pretends he invented.
[info]libertango wrote:
May. 8th, 2005 08:02 am (UTC)
Re: Dave
I have had my own problems with Dave from time to time, having read and written to him for... (quick scan of my e-mail archives) at least eight years now. But this is so remarkably unfair, I have to ask a few questions:

* "(H)e was wrong about that like he was about everything else." What is this "everything else" of which you speak? Please give three examples. While you're at it, please give pointers to three examples of where you were right, and Dave was wrong, in advance of events.

* Just how do ads -- which won't work -- by corporate content providers show that the users "view the technology" differently than Dave does? If the users do indeed follow Dave's prediction and don't buy the items or services advertised -- just like web ads don't work, or print ads, or TV ads -- won't that mean Dave got the users' point-of-view exactly right?

* "(T)he technology that he pretends he invented." Please name who it is you think invented RSS instead. Please demonstrate this with period citations.

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